Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%.

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Old 03 Dec 2009, 08:41 pm   #1 (permalink)
David Z
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%.

That explains why John "The Ass" Dole didn't post any Toyota/Lexus sales
numbers this month.


"greg" <grezuki@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e6947855-d52c-47cc-93cc-a809f3daba82@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> Could it be no one is paying any attention to how terrible Toyota and
> Lexus are supposed to be???
>
> Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November sales
> of 133,700 vehicles, an increase of 11.5 percent over last November,
> on a daily selling rate basis. The Toyota Division posted November
> sales of 115,200 units, an increase of 9.8 percent over the same
> period last year.
>
> The Lexus Division reported November sales of 18,500 units, an
> increase of 24 percent over the year-ago month.
>
> The BMW Group in the U. S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported November
> sales of 18,272 vehicles, a decrease of 7.5 percent from the 19,762
> vehicles sold in the same month of 2008. BMW Brand Sales Sales of BMW
> brand vehicles increased 3.2 percent in November for a total of 15,708
> vehicles compared to 15,217 vehicles reported in the same month a year
> ago.
>



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Old 04 Dec 2009, 07:02 am   #2 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading

I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales
up 3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales
were up 11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting
they glossed over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News
web site and the TMS news release posted different percentage
increases, the number of vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I
found this confusing, so I looked further.

Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle
sales per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in
Novemeber 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were
25 selling days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus +
Toyota + Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year
Toyota USA sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on
a daily basis of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to
do it, but it seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM
sales were up nearly 7% for November, although they actually sold
fewer vehicles in November 2009, than in November 2008.

I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than
2008? In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two
theoretical holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies
30-(2+5) = 23. However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas
Day and the Friday after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at
least 24 selling days in Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were
also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23, 20), and two theoretical holidays, yet
Toyota claims there were 25 selling Days in November of 2008. How can
they do this? I guess the net is, Toyota, while not openly lying, is
playing around with number to make it seem if they are doing a lot
better than they really are. I am suprised that GM doesn't use this
sort of convenient math to claim a sales increase as well.

For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up
3%). Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much
(down 2%). The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of
last year. Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up
21%). VW also did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009
compared to November 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%),
Mazda (+1%), Porsche (+18%).

Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many
cars sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008
(747,086 and 747,051 respectively).

The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News
still shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to
be the industry decline).

Ed


"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7nrb6pF3ltub2U1@mid.individual.net...
> That explains why John "The Ass" Dole didn't post any Toyota/Lexus
> sales numbers this month.
>
>
> "greg" <grezuki@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:e6947855-d52c-47cc-93cc-a809f3daba82@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>> Could it be no one is paying any attention to how terrible Toyota
>> and
>> Lexus are supposed to be???
>>
>> Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November
>> sales
>> of 133,700 vehicles, an increase of 11.5 percent over last
>> November,
>> on a daily selling rate basis. The Toyota Division posted November
>> sales of 115,200 units, an increase of 9.8 percent over the same
>> period last year.
>>
>> The Lexus Division reported November sales of 18,500 units, an
>> increase of 24 percent over the year-ago month.
>>
>> The BMW Group in the U. S. (BMW and MINI combined) reported
>> November
>> sales of 18,272 vehicles, a decrease of 7.5 percent from the 19,762
>> vehicles sold in the same month of 2008. BMW Brand Sales Sales of
>> BMW
>> brand vehicles increased 3.2 percent in November for a total of
>> 15,708
>> vehicles compared to 15,217 vehicles reported in the same month a
>> year
>> ago.
>>

>
>



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Old 04 Dec 2009, 11:10 am   #3 (permalink)
Ray O
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hfb1hk$rlm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales up
>3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales were up
>11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting they glossed
>over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News web site and the
>TMS news release posted different percentage increases, the number of
>vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I found this confusing, so I
>looked further.
>
> Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle sales
> per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in Novemeber
> 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were 25 selling
> days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus + Toyota +
> Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year Toyota USA
> sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on a daily basis
> of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to do it, but it
> seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly
> 7% for November, although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November
> 2009, than in November 2008.
>
> I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than 2008?
> In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two theoretical
> holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies 30-(2+5) = 23.
> However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas Day and the Friday
> after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at least 24 selling days in
> Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23,
> 20), and two theoretical holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling
> Days in November of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is,
> Toyota, while not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it
> seem if they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
> that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
> increase as well.
>
> For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
> reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up 3%).
> Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much (down 2%).
> The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of last year.
> Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up 21%). VW also
> did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009 compared to November
> 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche
> (+18%).
>
> Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many cars
> sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008 (747,086 and
> 747,051 respectively).
>
> The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News still
> shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to be the
> industry decline).
>
> Ed
>


I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.

Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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Old 04 Dec 2009, 09:48 pm   #4 (permalink)
bob
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading

In article <hfbgct$oko$2@news.eternal-september.org>,
rokigawa@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com says...
>

<snip>
> I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
> automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
> rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
>
> Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
> allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
> up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
> rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
> year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.


Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
industry.

Other industries will report various periodic sales figures and note any
variance in the number of selling days in the current vs. previous
selling period. Both the Jan - Mar and Apr - Jun quarters can be
affected by the date of Easter.

HTH,

Bob



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Old 05 Dec 2009, 01:32 pm   #5 (permalink)
in2dadark
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. -seems misleading



Ray O wrote:
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:hfb1hk$rlm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota sales up
> >3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA sales were up
> >11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%). Interesting they glossed
> >over the decline in Scion sales. Although the Auto News web site and the
> >TMS news release posted different percentage increases, the number of
> >vehicles sold is in a agreement (133,700). I found this confusing, so I
> >looked further.
> >
> > Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle sales
> > per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in Novemeber
> > 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there were 25 selling
> > days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA (Lexus + Toyota +
> > Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per day. This year Toyota USA
> > sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per day, an increase on a daily basis
> > of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I suppose this is one way to do it, but it
> > seems a little hinky to me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly
> > 7% for November, although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November
> > 2009, than in November 2008.
> >
> > I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than 2008?
> > In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two theoretical
> > holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies 30-(2+5) = 23.
> > However, where I live the dealers were open on Veternas Day and the Friday
> > after Thanksgiving, so that means there were at least 24 selling days in
> > Novemeber in some areas. In 2008, there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23,
> > 20), and two theoretical holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling
> > Days in November of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is,
> > Toyota, while not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it
> > seem if they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
> > that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
> > increase as well.
> >
> > For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
> > reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November (up 3%).
> > Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too much (down 2%).
> > The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to November of last year.
> > Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan did well also (up 21%). VW also
> > did OK (up 9%). Others that were up in November 2009 compared to November
> > 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche
> > (+18%).
> >
> > Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many cars
> > sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008 (747,086 and
> > 747,051 respectively).
> >
> > The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto News still
> > shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also happens to be the
> > industry decline).
> >
> > Ed
> >

>
> I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
> automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average sales
> rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
>
> Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate to
> allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp production
> up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales rate as a "travel
> rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That said, month-to-date and
> year-to-date sales are what get reported on the financial statements.
>
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)


In related news, bullets are flying off the shelves...
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Old 05 Dec 2009, 07:03 pm   #6 (permalink)
Kevin
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading

in2dadark <in2dadark@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:6a8c24fb-4a7a-47ec-90f1-942088052e38@g23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:

>
>
> Ray O wrote:
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:hfb1hk$rlm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> >I just looked at the Auto News website and they only show Toyota
>> >sales up 3% for November. The Toyota news release claims Toyota USA
>> >sales were up 11.5% (Toyota division up 9.8%, Lexus up 22.2%).
>> >Interesting they glossed over the decline in Scion sales. Although
>> >the Auto News web site and the TMS news release posted different
>> >percentage increases, the number of vehicles sold is in a agreement
>> >(133,700). I found this confusing, so I looked further.
>> >
>> > Toyota is basing the 11.5% increase on average number of vehicle
>> > sales per day, not total sales for the month. Toyota claims that in
>> > Novemeber 2009 there 23 selling days. In 2008, they claim there
>> > were 25 selling days. According to AUto News, last year Toyota USA
>> > (Lexus + Toyota + Scion) sold 130,307 vehicles, or 5,212.28 per
>> > day. This year Toyota USA sold 133,700 vehicles, or 5,813.04 per
>> > day, an increase on a daily basis of 600.76, which is 11.5%. I
>> > suppose this is one way to do it, but it seems a little hinky to
>> > me. Using the same logic, GM sales were up nearly 7% for November,
>> > although they actually sold fewer vehicles in November 2009, than
>> > in November 2008.
>> >
>> > I wonder how they decided November 2009 had fewer selling days than
>> > 2008? In 2009, there were 5 Sundays (1, 8,15, 22, 29) and two
>> > theoretical holidays (Thanksgiving and Veterans Day?). This implies
>> > 30-(2+5) = 23. However, where I live the dealers were open on
>> > Veternas Day and the Friday after Thanksgiving, so that means there
>> > were at least 24 selling days in Novemeber in some areas. In 2008,
>> > there were also 5 Sundays (2, 9 16, 23, 20), and two theoretical
>> > holidays, yet Toyota claims there were 25 selling Days in November
>> > of 2008. How can they do this? I guess the net is, Toyota, while
>> > not openly lying, is playing around with number to make it seem if
>> > they are doing a lot better than they really are. I am suprised
>> > that GM doesn't use this sort of convenient math to claim a sales
>> > increase as well.
>> >
>> > For comparison, using the more accurate (in my opinion) Auto News
>> > reporting scheme (total monthly sales), Toyota did OK in November
>> > (up 3%). Ford held steady (up ~ 0.1%). Even GM didn't suffer too
>> > much (down 2%). The real star was Hyundai, up 34% compared to
>> > November of last year. Subaru was also up greatly (+24%). Nissan
>> > did well also (up 21%). VW also did OK (up 9%). Others that were up
>> > in November 2009 compared to November 2008 - Diamler (+9%), Jaguar
>> > Land Rover (+20%), Mazda (+1%), Porsche (+18%).
>> >
>> > Suprisingly Honda was down (-3%). Overall there were about as many
>> > cars sold in Novemebr of 2009 as were sold in Novemebr of 2008
>> > (747,086 and 747,051 respectively).
>> >
>> > The Toyota new release did not mention year to date sales. Auto
>> > News still shows Toyota down 24% for 2009 as a whole (this also
>> > happens to be the industry decline).
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >

>>
>> I've seen the reference to daily average sales rate before from other
>> automakers. I think automakers started announcing the daily average
>> sales rate as a way to come up with good news in bad times.
>>
>> Toyota, and I assume other automakers, use daily average sales rate
>> to allocate vehicles to dealers and as a gauge for how much to ramp
>> production up or down. Toyota refers to the daily average sales
>> rate as a "travel rate" and uses it to determine days supply. That
>> said, month-to-date and year-to-date sales are what get reported on
>> the financial statements.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)

>
> In related news, bullets are flying off the shelves...
>


At a much higher increase persentage than all of the car manufactures
put together. KB

--
THUNDERSNAKE #9

Protect your rights or "Lose" them
The 2nd Admendment guarantees the others
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Old 06 Dec 2009, 02:30 pm   #7 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading


"bob" <nottooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25839405556cc3b7989702@news.eternal-september.org...

> Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
> industry.


I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
so I must be missing something.

Ed

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 08:19 pm   #8 (permalink)
bob
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading

In article <7PCdnQ0mMMvmiYHWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@earthlink.com> ,
cewhite3remove@mindspring.com says...
>
> "bob" <nottooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.25839405556cc3b7989702@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
> > industry.

>
> I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
> November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
> so I must be missing something.
>
> Ed


Ed,

I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
by the automakers to make their sales look better.

Bob

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Old 06 Dec 2009, 08:46 pm   #9 (permalink)
dr_jeff
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. -seems misleading

bob wrote:
> In article <7PCdnQ0mMMvmiYHWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@earthlink.com> ,
> cewhite3remove@mindspring.com says...
>> "bob" <nottooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.25839405556cc3b7989702@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>> Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
>>> industry.

>> I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
>> November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
>> so I must be missing something.
>>
>> Ed

>
> Ed,
>
> I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
> what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
> by the automakers to make their sales look better.
>
> Bob


I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
may be a proper way to monitor sales.

Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as
one considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.

Jeff


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Old 06 Dec 2009, 09:53 pm   #10 (permalink)
bob
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Default Re: Toyota Sales Up 9.8% in November; Lexus Leaps Forward 24%. - seems misleading

In article <OOmdnbTBu6wH8YHWnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@giganews.com>, utz@msu.edu
says...
>
> bob wrote:
> > In article <7PCdnQ0mMMvmiYHWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@earthlink.com> ,
> > cewhite3remove@mindspring.com says...
> >> "bob" <nottooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.25839405556cc3b7989702@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>
> >>> Actually, daily average sales has been used for many years in the auto
> >>> industry.
> >> I'd still like to understand why November 2008 had 25 selling days and
> >> November 2009 has only 23. I can see any difference in the number of days,
> >> so I must be missing something.
> >>
> >> Ed

> >
> > Ed,
> >
> > I don't know the answer either. I was just pointing out that contrary to
> > what someone suspected, this reporting method is not a recent invention
> > by the automakers to make their sales look better.
> >
> > Bob

>
> I am not so sure that using selling days is not a legitimate practice.
> Cars are sold only on selling days. So this may properly adjust for the
> number of days that cars can be sold on during a particular month. This
> may be a proper way to monitor sales.
>
> Personally, adjusting for the number of selling days is ok, as long as
> one considers both the adjusted number and unadjusted numbers.
>
> Jeff


Jeff,

I liken it to financial statements that provide figures inclusive and
exclusive of "extraordinary items". Extraordinary items can hide good or
bad operating results, but are included in dividend calculations.

Bob
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