Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem

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Old 10 Dec 2009, 02:53 am   #21 (permalink)
ben91932
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


> I had a Sonoma stall on me twice the other day at the posted speed limit.
> It was a cold day and I hadnt warmed the engine before I started out.
>
> I could have taken the time to let the engine warm up. *I guess that made
> it my fault?


Not just no but hell no.
Our modern cars are designed to be started and driven immediately.
A car that quits running is broken, plain and simple. Drivers cant
pedal pump or drag the brakes or anything else to force a good woring
new car to stall or quit at any speed.
Ben
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Old 10 Dec 2009, 08:12 am   #22 (permalink)
hls
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hfpdnj$g4s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> Why do you bring this shit up?


Because I wanted to , and it is appropriate, regardless of the make and
model.

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Old 10 Dec 2009, 11:24 am   #23 (permalink)
Wayne
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:gNmdnWaTipAQt73WnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hflvnd$pt2$1@news.eternal-
>>
>> The report was that the car was being driven on the freeway when the
>> engine shut down for no apparent reason. Some might call that a stall.
>> None would agree that such an event could be driver induced.
>>
>> You pull out of the neighborhood with a cold motor and the engine stalls
>> as you pull up to the traffic light is an entirely different matter. But
>> if the car will not idle, it's broken. Do you care? Apparently not. Is it
>> critical? No. But if you were cruising along on the freeway and the
>> engine took the opportunity to shut off for no reason, I'm pretty sure
>> you would be concerned.

>
> In the case of the Sonoma, the car was not properly warmed up, but DID
> stall twice under driving conditions. It had never done this before, nor
> did
> it repeat after total warmul.
>
> In the case of the damned Buick Regal I referenced, this thing would shut
> down wherever the heck it wanted to, warm or cold, any speed.
> It WAS a bad ECU.
> I was exasperated after having gone to the Buick dealership 6-7 times
> and they always told me the mechanic couldnt make it act up. The last
> time, I told them to let me ride with the mechanic and I would show them,
> but they refused. I asked them to check the TSBs on this car, and they
> assured
> me that they had. (Lie!)
>
> On the way back to my office, the damn thing died on the freeway 3-4
> times.
>
> Now mad as hell, I called GM until I found was would be referred to as a
> zone representative and told them that this damned car was going to get me
> killed.
> Immediately the representative told me that they knew all about it, there
> had been
> TSBs on this, and the problem was defective run of ECMs.
>
> About two hours later, the shop foreman at the dealership called me, mad
> as hell.
> WHY DID I CALL GM AND EMBARASS THEM! Because, you simple shit,
> this car was going to kill me, and I had exhausted every avenue with him
> and with
> the mechanics. About a half hour later the owner of the dealership
> called me
> personally and apologized.
>
> Moral: Not everybody at GM is a shit and incompetent, but some are. Any
> car
> with defective systems can kill you. And sometimes you have to take the
> crusade
> to the edge of Jerusalem before you get any satisfaction.

-
LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota. If a
GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that Toyota
can/will fix it.


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Old 10 Dec 2009, 01:02 pm   #24 (permalink)
C. E. White
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


"Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hfr7c9$rat$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went
> Toyota. If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more
> confidence that Toyota can/will fix it.


This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy. Toyota is far
more aggressive at denying problem, fighting recalls and misleading
Customer than GM ever was. I don't care for GM cars, and would agree
that in the last ten to fifteen years the average Toyota is probably
better assembled than the average GM product (just an opinion). But
you are never going to convince me that Toyota bends over backward to
please their Customers. Look at the recent history - Rusting truck
frames - Toyota did zip until NHTSA treatened a recall. Massive truck
balljoint failures - Toyota repeately lied about the extent of the
problem and did nothing until NHTSA treatened a recall. Sludge prone
engines - Toyota did nothing until the publicity was so bad they had
to give in, but they still tried to lay ALL the blame on their
Customers. How about V6 head gasket failures - ever bit as bad as the
problems Ford or GM had and the response was at least as draconian.

Claims that "Toyota can/will fix it" are just idle hopes. Maybe they
will, or maybe they will say the problem is all your fault.

At least in the case of GM products, it is often the dealer, not GM
that is the stumbling block to having a problem farily resolved. I
suppose this is GM fault, except state franchise laws being what they
are, GM often has very little leverage when it comes to making dealers
more responsive.

Ed


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Old 10 Dec 2009, 03:13 pm   #25 (permalink)
Wayne
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hfrddf$ge1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hfr7c9$rat$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota.
>> If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that
>> Toyota can/will fix it.

>
> This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy. Toyota is far more
> aggressive at denying problem, fighting recalls and misleading Customer
> than GM ever was. I don't care for GM cars, and would agree that in the
> last ten to fifteen years the average Toyota is probably better assembled
> than the average GM product (just an opinion). But you are never going to
> convince me that Toyota bends over backward to please their Customers.
> Look at the recent history - Rusting truck frames - Toyota did zip until
> NHTSA treatened a recall. Massive truck balljoint failures - Toyota
> repeately lied about the extent of the problem and did nothing until NHTSA
> treatened a recall. Sludge prone engines - Toyota did nothing until the
> publicity was so bad they had to give in, but they still tried to lay ALL
> the blame on their Customers. How about V6 head gasket failures - ever bit
> as bad as the problems Ford or GM had and the response was at least as
> draconian.
>
> Claims that "Toyota can/will fix it" are just idle hopes. Maybe they will,
> or maybe they will say the problem is all your fault.
>
> At least in the case of GM products, it is often the dealer, not GM that
> is the stumbling block to having a problem farily resolved. I suppose this
> is GM fault, except state franchise laws being what they are, GM often has
> very little leverage when it comes to making dealers more responsive.
>
> Ed

My statement is based on limited Toyota experience. Over the years, I have
had several GM vehicles that all were like lean and hungry animals that
tried to eat me out of house and home. My only Toyota was a Lexus RX-300
that went 11 years with routine tire/brake/dealer maintenance, and the ONLY
failure in the car was a burned out lamp on the dash that indicates that the
shift is set to "Drive". Just bought a new car....GM was not considered.


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Old 11 Dec 2009, 07:30 am   #26 (permalink)
Steve Austin
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem

Wayne wrote:
> "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:gNmdnWaTipAQt73WnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:hflvnd$pt2$1@news.eternal-
>>> The report was that the car was being driven on the freeway when the
>>> engine shut down for no apparent reason. Some might call that a stall.
>>> None would agree that such an event could be driver induced.
>>>
>>> You pull out of the neighborhood with a cold motor and the engine stalls
>>> as you pull up to the traffic light is an entirely different matter. But
>>> if the car will not idle, it's broken. Do you care? Apparently not. Is it
>>> critical? No. But if you were cruising along on the freeway and the
>>> engine took the opportunity to shut off for no reason, I'm pretty sure
>>> you would be concerned.

>> In the case of the Sonoma, the car was not properly warmed up, but DID
>> stall twice under driving conditions. It had never done this before, nor
>> did
>> it repeat after total warmul.
>>
>> In the case of the damned Buick Regal I referenced, this thing would shut
>> down wherever the heck it wanted to, warm or cold, any speed.
>> It WAS a bad ECU.
>> I was exasperated after having gone to the Buick dealership 6-7 times
>> and they always told me the mechanic couldnt make it act up. The last
>> time, I told them to let me ride with the mechanic and I would show them,
>> but they refused. I asked them to check the TSBs on this car, and they
>> assured
>> me that they had. (Lie!)
>>
>> On the way back to my office, the damn thing died on the freeway 3-4
>> times.
>>
>> Now mad as hell, I called GM until I found was would be referred to as a
>> zone representative and told them that this damned car was going to get me
>> killed.
>> Immediately the representative told me that they knew all about it, there
>> had been
>> TSBs on this, and the problem was defective run of ECMs.
>>
>> About two hours later, the shop foreman at the dealership called me, mad
>> as hell.
>> WHY DID I CALL GM AND EMBARASS THEM! Because, you simple shit,
>> this car was going to kill me, and I had exhausted every avenue with him
>> and with
>> the mechanics. About a half hour later the owner of the dealership
>> called me
>> personally and apologized.
>>
>> Moral: Not everybody at GM is a shit and incompetent, but some are. Any
>> car
>> with defective systems can kill you. And sometimes you have to take the
>> crusade
>> to the edge of Jerusalem before you get any satisfaction.

> -
> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota. If a
> GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that Toyota
> can/will fix it.
>
>

While I would rather own a Toyota than a GM (car), I do believe that GM
engine management systems are a class above Toyota's.
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Old 11 Dec 2009, 12:00 pm   #27 (permalink)
Ed White
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem

On Dec 10, 3:13*pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "C. E. White" <cewhi...@mindspring.com> wrote in messagenews:hfrddf$ge1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:hfr7c9$rat$1@news.eternal-september.org...

>
> >> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota..
> >> If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that
> >> Toyota can/will fix it.

>
> > This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy. Toyota is far more
> > aggressive at denying problem, fighting recalls and misleading Customer
> > than GM ever was. I don't care for GM cars, and would agree that in the
> > last ten to fifteen years the average Toyota is probably better assembled
> > than the average GM product (just an opinion). But you are never going to
> > convince me that Toyota bends over backward to please their Customers.
> > Look at the recent history - Rusting truck frames - Toyota did zip until
> > NHTSA treatened a recall. Massive truck balljoint failures - Toyota
> > repeately lied about the extent of the problem and did nothing until NHTSA
> > treatened a recall. Sludge prone engines - Toyota did nothing until the
> > publicity was so bad they had to give in, but they still tried to lay ALL
> > the blame on their Customers. How about V6 head gasket failures - ever bit
> > as bad as the problems Ford or GM had and the response was at least as
> > draconian.

>
> > Claims that "Toyota can/will fix it" are just idle hopes. Maybe they will,
> > or maybe they will say the problem is all your fault.

>
> > At least in the case of GM products, it is often the dealer, not GM that
> > is the stumbling block to having a problem farily resolved. I suppose this
> > is GM fault, except state franchise laws being what they are, GM often has
> > very little leverage when it comes to making dealers more responsive.

>
> > Ed

>
> My statement is based on limited Toyota experience. *Over the years, I have
> had several GM vehicles that all were like lean and hungry animals that
> tried to eat me out of house and home. *My only Toyota was a Lexus RX-300
> that went 11 years with routine tire/brake/dealer maintenance, and the ONLY
> failure in the car was a burned out lamp on the dash that indicates that the
> shift is set to "Drive". *Just bought a new car....GM was not considered.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


You when you get a Toyota clunker (and they make them all the time)
and Toyota tells you the car is perfect and all the problems are your
fault, what will you do then?

Ed
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Old 11 Dec 2009, 03:55 pm   #28 (permalink)
Desertphile
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:00:45 -0800 (PST), Ed White
<ce.white3@gmail.com> wrote:

> You when you get a Toyota clunker (and they make them all the time)
> and Toyota tells you the car is perfect and all the problems are your
> fault, what will you do then?


If that ever happens, we'll be sure to let you know.


--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
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Old 11 Dec 2009, 04:07 pm   #29 (permalink)
hls
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hfrddf$ge1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hfr7c9$rat$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota.
>> If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that
>> Toyota can/will fix it.

>
> This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy.


***
I find that the mechanic who works on the car is a very important part of
this problem. Neither a GM or a Toyota should stall if in good working
order, except under special conditions.

Some of the dealership and independent mechanics here are pretty poorly
trained, but I will say that there are some who are excellent - masters at
what they do. The attitude of some shops seems to be "rush it out the
door and make room for another", rather that "let's fix this tough dog
for once and for all".

Every manufacturer will have some problem runs from time to time. There
are too many links in the supply chain to total avoid it.

But when it happens, people remember how they are treated, and what
effort the shop make to work with them to solve the problem.

My $0.02


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Old 12 Dec 2009, 01:06 am   #30 (permalink)
AlB
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Default Re: Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:02:36 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>"Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:hfr7c9$rat$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> How about V6 head gasket failures - ever bit as bad as the
>problems Ford or GM had and the response was at least as draconian.
>

My 1990 Toyota Extra Cab V6 was recalled by Toyota Canada for the head
gasket problem at 185,000 Km. (over 100,000 miles) on the clock. No
expense to me. When I commented that this might be a bit unusual, he
told me that he had changed a set on a truck with 420,000 Km the
previous week.

>Claims that "Toyota can/will fix it" are just idle hopes. Maybe they
>will, or maybe they will say the problem is all your fault.
>Ed
>

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